Jay (00:02.302)
Welcome to the Dive Table. I'm Jay Gardner and with me is our fifth co-host of season two, coming all the way from across the country now that I am settled in San Diego. You are literally across the country in Maryland, Mr. Greg Wolf. And Greg, I'm so glad you've agreed to join the show.
You and I have had some great conversations. In fact, we were just chatting it up for like half an hour before we even hit record about all kinds of things. But we've had a lot of conversations about life, scuba, and the topics of our episodes, which I found very interesting, this whole underwater archeology thing. And so you are currently studying to become an official, certified, whatever the word would be, licensed, I don't know what the right word, credential, there we go. Yeah, you academia folk.
Greg W (00:57.832)
Credential, I guess.
Jay (01:02.286)
credentialed underwater archeology, but you've had a lot of life experience prior to this, including being in the military, being a scuba instructor, being a firefighter, scraping barnacles off of boats, all kinds of crazy things. So I am really excited you're here. I'm excited to learn more from you, have some conversations about underwater archeology and what has drawn you to it. But before we get too far in this episode.
Why don't you take a minute, introduce yourself to the listeners out there. Let them know who you are, where you're at, anything you want to say. The table is yours.
Greg W (01:42.5)
All right, yeah. So this being a scuba diving podcast, I guess I could sort of start off on my own personal story and journey as far as diving goes and kind of how I got here and decided to pursue underwater archeology as a future career, still in school and still working towards finishing that up. But my passion for diving started
through my dad, which I think is pretty common for a lot of people. He was a dive master at a local shop up on Long Island. And I remember as a kid, like seven, eight, nine years old, he would leave the house early in the morning on weekends to go help out with classes and go on diving trips and little excursions out on Long Island. And he used to like keep his gear like hung up, like his BC on a...
hanger down in the basement and stuff. So as a little kid, I would like put it on and stick the inflator hose in my mouth and pretend that I was like swimming underwater and you know, going on these grand adventures as if I was in sea hunt. And, you know, back then, you had to be 12 years old, I think the age actually changed to 10 now for most training agencies to get certified.
Jay (02:40.674)
Hahaha
Greg W (03:02.16)
Back in 2007, it was 12 years old, so on my 12th birthday, I asked if I can get scuba lessons. And so he got me like a student packet that is actually still in the basement of my parents' house. Actually, no, I might have it on the shelf behind me. But it was like this little student package that came with a DVD and the manual, and I jumped right on it. And then that following summer in 2007, I got my junior open water license. And...
I spent summers diving with my dad. One year when I was 14 or 15, we went to Mexico in Playa, I think, and did a couple of dives down there. Yeah, that was good memories. I took a break from diving when I hit high school. I got involved in sports and other things at high school age. Kids get involved with academics.
Jay (03:43.298)
So cool.
Jay (03:54.33)
Ladies.
Greg W (04:00.248)
No, I was off chemistry. No, I was a horrible student. Um, I was by far not a good high school student at all, which is probably why I ended up joining the Marine Corps instead of going to college. Um, so I actually graduated half a year early. Uh, so I graduated half a year early just so I could leave for bootcamp sooner. And then I ended up hurting myself and had to wait until.
Jay (04:00.462)
Biology.
Jay (04:04.265)
haha
Greg W (04:27.46)
the end of the summer to ship off or boot camp anyway. But after going through training and all that stuff for about a year, I got stationed down in North Carolina at Camp Lejeune. And one day after hanging out in the barracks, bored out of my mind with nothing to do, I walked into my, not my local dive shop, but the dive shop down there right off base and signed up for a refresher course because I hadn't been diving in a couple of years. And that's where I met.
My good friend of mine, Danny, who now owns that dive shop down in Jacksonville, and basically went from zero to hero with him from, did my refresher and my advanced with him, went all the way up to dive master, got out of the Marine Corps, went back home, and then I went back down there to see him again that following summer to do my IDC and IEC through the shop and became a recreational instructor that way.
Um, and then while I was up in New York, um, after I became an instructor, I started teaching out of a shop and on Long Island and, uh, I joined my local volunteer fire department who had a dive team. So I got involved in firefighting and public safety diving and EMS through that, as well as some, uh, actual public safety diver training through the shop that I was now teaching for, um, the owner of that shop and I basically had an agreement where.
I taught for him and I did classes for him and I helped out around the shop. And instead of paying me, I would get to sit in on all these dive classes whenever he was teaching them. So I got to do a lot of public safety related training with different fire departments and like the New Jersey task force and fire departments in Connecticut and all across Long Island, a couple of police departments. I actually taught the open water portion of
scuba classes for a couple of guys on the NYPD dive team because they had to get it before they would go to the police diver academy. So that was really cool asking them about like what that process for trying out for that team was and you know meeting some of those guys and looking at pictures of them like jumping out of helicopters and stuff it was really neat. Yeah it was really cool and my wife decided to join the air force after I got out of the marine corps so she was in California basically that whole time.
Jay (06:38.379)
That's awesome.
Greg W (06:50.416)
Um, out in Monterey and, uh, when she got stationed over here in Maryland, I moved down with her. We was, she was over in California at like the height of COVID. So like moving over there and being with her before we were married, the military has like a weird complex thing when it comes to like military spouses and moving them under the government's dime and everything, but basically that all got frozen, um, during COVID. So I had to basically fly out there every couple of months to see her. Um, and then when.
She got her orders to come here to Maryland. I moved down and been here ever since. Um, now I dive, um, public safety wise for a fire department in Baltimore County as a volunteer. And, uh, sort of, I still teach whenever I get students. Uh, sometimes when I get people that come to me independently or through the commercial diving company that I scrape barnacles off of boats, a horrible job, don't ever do it.
Jay (07:46.53)
Hahaha
Greg W (07:50.408)
Um, it's, there is some real sketchy water and the Baltimore Harbor. So.
Jay (07:56.294)
Yeah. You know, it's funny is what my first job ever, uh, I can relate a little bit, not as much, but my first job ever was doc boy at a lake. So literally I, what was my title like doc boy and there were a bunch of us that worked, you know, the summer job. And, um, and most of it was like carrying ice from the doc to the actual brain. Cause there's like four marinas that all had to be serviced on the owned by the same company. And so
Greg W (08:14.635)
Mm-hmm.
Jay (08:25.634)
You know, the main hub one, we would, you know, ice and supplies down to the Marina, you know, on the waterfront and renting out fishing boats and things. But one of the, one of the jobs, um, that, that happens, uh, pre season. So everyone comes out a few weeks earlier. There was a really bad one and a really good one. So I'll start with the really good one. The good one was they bought new, uh, jet skis every year. And by the state of California law.
you have to put some number of hours, 10 hours on each jet ski before you can call it a rental for your company. So we'd start the season, literally our job. We got paid to go ride jet skis every day all day long for like two weeks, which is great. And then the, as it relates to you, it was the bad part of the job, which is we had these humongous houseboats that had like hot tubs on top. I mean, they're nicer than my house, you know, just super nice, but they get scum and nastiness.
Greg W (09:04.252)
like muscle.
Jay (09:20.786)
on the pontoons and all that and stuff that gets stuck on it. Yes, they're nasty, right? And
Greg W (09:23.56)
Houseboats are the worst. Yeah, and nobody ever cleans them and they never go anywhere. You just get like, like florists of muscles and barnacles and you're just, you're fighting for like every inch when you clean.
Jay (09:30.662)
Yep, yep, yep.
Jay (09:35.046)
Yep. So we used to take a life jacket, flip it upside down, put it on like a diaper, basically, and have to float in these, you know, between these pontoons and sit there with scrapers and scrape all the stuff off the docks and off the houseboat pontoons and everything like that. So I can relate a little. We weren't in Scuba. We were in our life jacket, you know, diaper, but
Greg W (10:03.804)
Hmm.
Jay (10:04.066)
But I know that I did that for three summers. So I know that nastiness. The amount of things that can come into the water and the color of the water changes is just, ugh.
Greg W (10:09.904)
Yeah. Bye.
Greg W (10:15.824)
It's gross. I mean, like, I've gotten up from cleaning and scraping the bottom of boats, and there'd be dead fish just floating right in front of me. So I dive for fun still, obviously, and almost all of the real-life failures I've ever had on my gear has been from cleaning boats. I've
Jay (10:25.314)
Ha ha ha!
Greg W (10:44.488)
because like barnacle chunks get stuck under the diaphragm in the second stage. So you're getting like all this like Baltimore city because like all the marinas in Baltimore, obviously it's where all the boats are, it's where we clean and just like inhaling like aerosolized Baltimore marina water. And it's just, I ended up buying a full face mask. I was just getting so sick like every week. I get like ear infections like every week or two. And it's great for the immune system. I mean, who knows what like can no longer.
Jay (10:47.189)
Oh
Jay (11:00.703)
Ugh.
Greg W (11:13.456)
get me sick now, but yeah, it's yeah. I was an EMT in New York. Didn't like emergency stuff. I volunteered emergency EMS, but I mostly cared about firefighting. But as a job, I did transport EMS, which the best way I could explain it is like mass medical insurance fraud.
Jay (11:15.81)
Yeah, COVID, what? What was that? Like...
Greg W (11:37.008)
but you're just like taking people in and out of nursing homes and taking them to doctor's appointments and you're charging them like $20,000 for a five minute trip where you don't do anything. Um, but during COVID it was all like, you know, all these people like all the medical, the quarantine procedures and there was like a lot of like transporting people to and from hospice care. I caught COVID like four times. It was horrible. Yeah. It's.
Jay (11:59.438)
Oh my goodness.
surprised your Baltimore Harbor didn't make you immune to that. Oh, okay. So see there, the cure to COVID is scraped barnacles in the Baltimore Harbor.
Greg W (12:07.036)
This was before I started swimming in the vault. Yeah. The cure to COVID is whatever runoff comes out of Baltimore City into the Marina water. Yeah.
Jay (12:16.206)
Hahaha!
Jay (12:19.626)
Yeah. The worst thing about that lake job, by the way, which I'm sure exists in this as well, because it was all freshwater for it was like, but you know, we had, we called it the honey bucket. But you know, when you have a, when you have a houseboats and houseboats out and mooring lines as well, so private houseboats, but the rental fleet as well, they need to be pumped out, right? The sewage needs to be pumped out. And so it all gets pumped into a floating barge, basically can holding container that we call the honey bucket.
And I remember one season that, uh, that the, uh, that, you know, they're supposed to be alarmed and they're contained. So it's, you know, there's a containment barrier around the actual container and it's off floating on a barge. Right. And when it's time to pump it out to the surface, you drag it around with the workboat and gets pumped out and taken away. Well, the alarm system for whatever reason didn't work. And someone left a pump on pumping.
Greg W (12:49.905)
I'm out.
Jay (13:17.866)
Lake water into it. And so all we got was like, you know, the emergency, Hey, it's overflowing. And I was the first one out the door and oh my gosh, the, the stench and the, it was the nastiest thing ever. Not to gross everybody out, out there, but, but yeah. And then, you know, that containment barrier didn't work so well. We'll just put it that way. I'm not naming names here, but, uh, EPA will be all over that, but, uh, but yeah, it was, it was quite a thing. And you just think like.
That water that sits in a marina or in a harbor is different than the water that's ever else because of all the pollutants that get put into it and the traffic and human traffic and so on and so forth. So I get it. It's that's a, but Hey.
Greg W (13:58.728)
Yeah, yeah, Baltimore's sewage system is, I mean, swimming in that water, it's not the best. Um, because this is actually something that was pointed out to a coworker of mine, but apparently, and this is kind of like cool talking about the history of it, Baltimore still has wooden sewage pipes, apparently. Yeah, so there's, supposedly that's like still an active thing that they use, and from,
Jay (14:09.008)
Hahaha!
Jay (14:20.404)
Wow, wow, really?
Greg W (14:27.468)
What I've been told is that they actually work better than like the newer metal ones Because of like how they swell up when they get wet and they stick together Better than the metal ones where they're riveted Together because then their metal rusts and corrodes and breaks down and it leaks I don't know how true that is, but that's what i've been told. So
Jay (14:32.435)
Really? That's interesting.
Jay (14:41.232)
Oh, yeah.
Jay (14:48.202)
Man, the differences between the East coast and West coast will never, uh, will never cease to amaze me. Things that happened in uh, yeah, Baltimore. It is. Yeah. No, I've been, I've been, I've hung out in Baltimore a couple of times before I knew you. So otherwise we would have hung out. But all I, all I really took away from Baltimore was, um, it, uh, almost, uh, on unexplainable love.
Greg W (14:57.158)
Baltimore is an old city. They still got brick cobbled roads.
Jay (15:18.142)
for Old Bay, the seasoning, like it's on everything. I mean, I could not order something without Old Bay on it.
Greg W (15:20.941)
Holy...
Greg W (15:26.512)
Oh, dude, that's so accurate. Like I, I don't feel bad for talking bad about Maryland because I'm not a Maryland native, I'm from Long Island. I'll even talk bad about Long Island. But, um, no, dude, that's true. Everything is crab themed or crabs, old bay. And they all like, everything has the Maryland flag pattern on it. Which is super weird to me. Cause like coming from New York, like nobody, I
Jay (15:34.132)
Okay.
Jay (15:38.234)
Hahaha
Jay (15:43.874)
Crabs, yes.
Jay (15:50.494)
Yes, yes, yes.
Greg W (15:55.484)
There are probably more New Yorkers out there that don't actually know what the New York flag looks like, but then you come down to Maryland, Maryland flag pattern is on literally everything. It's nuts.
Jay (16:05.086)
Everything. Yeah. No, that's what I remember. And there were these things called burger cookies that are sold like in the grocery store, that are like these kind of sugar cookies with basically a layer of fudge on top. And they're amazing. If you haven't had those, that's a Maryland thing as well. We have good friends that live in Maryland. And they her, my wife's friend's mom, so
There we go. Any story that starts with that's always gonna be good. But she used to ship us a couple packages of burger cookies, a little care package here and there. I don't know what happened to that. And I used to go, Oh my gosh, it's amazing. But Old Bay, crabs. It was like Old Bay beer, Old Bay ketchup, Old Bay, you know, French fries, which were pretty good. I mean, everything. You could not have, you could have whatever you wanted with Old Bay.
as a part of the old bay ice cream. I'm sure it exists. I didn't have it there. It does see. Okay. There we go. The old bay ice cream. Oh man. Sorry to those folks out there that are from Maryland that get it. I'm a California guy. I didn't, I liked it. It wasn't like, this is gross, but it was just like an obsession. It was, it was a complete obsession. Couldn't explain it.
Greg W (17:02.404)
It does. It actually does exist. I can confirm that all day ice cream does exist.
Greg W (17:22.716)
Yeah, it's... I don't know, man. It's a weird... It's a weird area to be from or live in, I guess.
Jay (17:32.106)
Well, good. So let's roll into this. Now that we know who you are, thanks for sharing. There's even more to that too, which we can unpack. But let's get into the meat of this episode. So for this one, we wanted to take the time to define this term underwater archaeology. I know that you're studying to become that credential. There is the right word. And we wanted to kind of help people understand it. Because
Greg W (17:37.192)
Sure. Yeah.
Jay (17:58.638)
You know, it doesn't sound too complex when you say underwater archaeology, but it definitely elicits what the heck does that mean? There's some complexity and some really cool details to this. So I thought it'd be fun for us in this episode to kind of, you know, put on our Indiana Jones hat, get out our whip, our underwater whip, and, you know, get into some underwater archaeology. So you ready? You ready to get into the meat of this?
Greg W (18:22.493)
Yeah.
Greg W (18:28.846)
Um, I as ready as I'll ever be, I guess.
Jay (18:32.01)
Well, you'll be a reddier a year from now and another year when you're fully credentialed. But what the heck? Let's do it anyways.
Greg W (18:34.608)
I'll be ready when I finish my degree.
Greg W (18:40.036)
Yeah, sure. So, underwater archaeology, huh? I guess, I mean, the easiest way to explain coming from like a total side of ignorance, because I don't actually work in this field yet, fingers crossed, is that it's archaeology underwater, you know, studying history and studying archaeology and anthropology and basically everything that it kind of means to have like what
Jay (18:54.007)
Yet, yes.
Greg W (19:07.396)
we were what we came from as a species is a complex, scholastic field to unpack really. But as far as the underwater archeology part of it goes, it's exactly what it sounds like. It's archeology that takes place underwater.
Jay (19:28.938)
Yep. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, and boom, episode over. What more do you need to know? Right? Yeah, no, exactly. Well, it's funny because like, so I am truly ignorant in the sense that like, this is not a, not a subject that I have delved into very deeply until prepping for this episode. And so I found, you know, Noah, the National Oceanographic, you know,
Greg W (19:34.25)
There it is. Right. On to episode two.
Jay (19:59.17)
gurus, we'll just put it that way, define it like this. So I literally copied and pasted it. Underwater archeology is the systematic documentation and recovery of information from submerged artifacts and underwater sites for the interpretation of past human cultures. So exactly what you said. It's how do we understand where we came from? We do a lot of this on land. It's not so complex when you think about it on land.
But when you add the underwater bit, there's a lot of obviously coastal change and waterway change that's taken place over thousands and millennia of years, where there are artifacts and things to understand about where we came from, about how human beings evolved and how they lived in those times, that now reside, that once were on land, now reside underwater or.
you know, events have happened like earthquakes or floods or tsunamis and things that have taken places that were once on land and now they're underwater. And so it's really that study of how not only, you know, we live and the artifacts that live underneath the water, but I think the nuance here too, that's cool. Is that it's also the study of how we have, as humans have interacted with that water, whether it be ocean, seas, rivers, lakes, because water obviously is a, is a vital.
resource for us as humans. We've always found civilizations next to a fresh water source or a water source of some sort. And so the interaction with that is also part of this uncovering of underwater archaeology, which is super interesting. So I think it's cool. I think it's a cool subject.
Greg W (21:45.008)
Yeah, well, I mean, like you said, all of human history for is really connected to the water. I mean, you go back to like the Bronze Age all the way back to like the first sailors or people what a lot of people refer to as the first sales with the people. It's U.B.A.I.D. I think is how they spell it. And, you know, you're looking at just like how they made little reed boats and put those together to.
start working on irrigation and moving up and down rivers, going all the way through Egypt and the significance of the Khufu ship and when they found that and the religious aspects to that as well. So thousands and thousands of years people have had a huge connection to the water for trade, for life, for growing crops. And like you mentioned, like natural disasters, even like parts of cities that were
once on land and earthquakes and tidal waves and tsunamis put crazy artifacts that in some ways are better preserved because they never got touched again by people can still be found underwater. So connecting the historical and the anthropological anthropology portion of understanding people and being able to access it.
to where it was not easily like, you couldn't access it before. Scuba diving is still a relatively new concept. If you look at like Egypt, like there are ancient Egyptians who studied even more ancient Egyptians. So for maritime archeology, this is still a relatively new field and we're still exploring the bottom of our oceans and finding things.
Jay (23:28.126)
Right.
Greg W (23:41.984)
Small things like pottery, like the shape of the amphorae found on old Egyptian or Greek or Roman ships can divulge tons of information about trade routes and how different ancient civilizations interacted with each other. So, you know, using the tools and everything that we use to find that stuff like sonar, different profiles, mapping the underwater environment with magnetometers and...
all that stuff and then going through the excavation and the salvage work of bringing back and preserving and photographing and documenting artifacts has gone, done tremendous strides for our understanding of the ancient world and sort of where we came from as a species.
Jay (24:27.09)
Yeah, no, it's amazing. I mean, you know, there's a recent story I was, I was reading about where there was a Dutch trading ship that was, you know, before there were banks, right? The, the transactions of banking happened over the seas, right? So if you wanted to, you know, move money, you had to literally move money and that happened in the sea, all right, on a boat.
Greg W (24:51.964)
Mm-hmm.
Jay (24:55.454)
And so there were a lot of these treasury ships that, that left port and, and sank for one reason or another. And there's one in particular, a Dutch, uh, treasury ship that had sunk in, and hadn't been discovered for years. And they discovered it. And of course, you know, there's, there's this, these two aspects, there's kind of the, and then we should get into this a little bit, there's kind of the underwater archeological perspective of trying to understand it. And then there's the treasure hunting perspective.
And there were, you know, there were both of these perspectives represented. And, and although I think the, maybe the techniques and tools and, and even some of the, um, the diving is similar in, in those two things, I think the philosophy and, and maybe the intent is different. And so they were talking about, you know, recovering all of these coins. They found it, they found, you know, pieces of it and things, and based on the cannons that were still there.
Greg W (25:25.631)
Hmm.
Jay (25:53.302)
so forth. And what they uncovered was they did find, you know, the proper coins that were supposed to be on the boat. But then they also started finding all these other coins and they're asking the question, well, what's, why are all these other coins here? And as they started to dig through this and understand it more and more, they found, you know, that it was a confirmation of kind of a myth that had existed in the historical understanding of this type of trade.
that there was a black market for coins because the coins were worth much more, almost double when you got to the East Indies from the Netherlands than they were at the Netherlands. And so they would take coins from friends and family and then use those coins to buy spices and other things and then bring them those spices back across and then sell the spices for double and basically double your coins. It was a...
common practice apparently and they found because of the location of them all, that it was kind of ubiquitous across the crew. So whether you were a crew captain officers, whatever it would be, that everybody was involved in this practice of kind of this black market coin trade that existed and that all came from uncovering and recovering these this rack with these coins. And so I mean, that's kind of one of the
just a kind of anecdotal story of the contribution of our understanding of history and where we came from, that underwater archeology contributes to, that I think is really, really cool and helps us make sense of our past, our history, connect some dots that may be our myths or things that we didn't know. And as the old saying says, there's nothing new, history repeats itself, right? It's a cycle. And so...
Greg W (27:29.018)
Mm-hmm.
Greg W (27:44.904)
Mm-hmm.
Jay (27:46.018)
Hopefully you get better, we get better as a species every time we do it. And that's part of the evolution of us. So I think it's a huge piece. I mean, history obviously in archeology in general plays a huge role. But now, like you say, being underwater is so new in the grand scheme of things that a lot of these sites, a lot of these discoveries are still virgin, are still complete, we just don't know what's there. And so that's a really interesting field.
Greg W (27:57.754)
Mm.
Greg W (28:13.56)
Yeah. And I mean, like, I mean, before we go back on, I guess, like the treasure hunting aspect of it, there's a huge difference between treasure hunting and archaeology. And a lot of people call themselves like amateur archaeologists, but they don't really go through the scientific method of kind of contributing to understanding of, you know, history and all that. And a lot of like.
If you take something off of a shipwreck, you know, like that's, it's gone, you know, you may not think it's very significant now, but a hundred years, 200 years from now, you might have an archaeologist that wants to go down there and look at the shipwreck and not realize why that wreck is missing a porthole off the side of it or why the bell is missing. You've destroyed or at least maybe not necessarily destroyed, but you've hidden a piece of history.
from the future understanding of people that are going to study us, if that makes sense. And so there's a long-term consequence to pillaging shipwrecks and taking treasure and treasure hunting. Artifacts are kind of, I don't want to say it's like public property, but the knowledge that comes with studying history.
artifacts and archaeology and understanding ourselves. That is knowledge that does belong to the public. And by taking that and treasure hunting and destroying that evidence, you take away from future generations understanding of what it was like to actually be us, which is a sad thing when you think about it. I don't wanna be forgotten. I don't wanna just be some like, piece of dust in the wind for future generations. Aw. You're so cute.
Jay (29:58.7)
Yeah, it's a-
Jay (30:04.33)
Oh, Greg, I'll always remember you. Don't worry. Yeah, no, this is it's an interesting thing, right? Because how do you balance these two things? Because, you know, there, there is a feeling like I discovered it, right? And it's there for the taking. So I think about like, you know, the famous, you know, Rex and things, the China fever that existed out on, you know, the Doria.
Greg W (30:20.893)
Mm-hmm.
Greg W (30:32.641)
Northeast divers and...
Jay (30:34.27)
Northeast divers, all these things, right? The Wahoo, all these all these stories that come out. And there is, you know, this kind of an artifact of my dive, right? Even even, you know, at your local dive site, in the quarry or in the lake or wherever it would be, you know, bringing back a little bit of treasure a little bit of that underworld, even if it's a shell, you know, or something like that, people are attracted to that.
Greg W (30:47.67)
Mmm.
Greg W (31:03.644)
Mm-hmm.
Jay (31:03.738)
You know, there's even these bags and things to go and get stuff, right? And so, you know, how do you balance those two things? What has historical relevance and what doesn't? And how do you navigate those two sides of the coin versus, you know, the treasure hunting and what has archaeological or historical relevance? I think it's a tough nut to crack. And for the average, you know, dummy like me, you know, my rule is I just don't take anything because I don't know.
You know what I mean? And so like, I'm not going to touch it. Um, but, but there are others that, that are more knowledgeable. There are others that are, have a different motivation possibly than I do. So I don't know what, what's your thoughts there? Cause I, I'm not sure if I have an opinion. I just don't know enough to have one yet. Um, there, but you do.
Greg W (31:33.902)
Mm-hmm.
Greg W (31:53.692)
I mean this it's an opinion if you're going to take something from a dive site if you're gonna take more than pictures and leave more than bubbles you should be doing it through a scientific methodology that is attributed to some sort of preservation and better understanding of whatever you're taking from you know so if you
work with, because you don't have to be an underwater, you don't have to be an archaeologist to do underwater archaeology stuff. There are plenty of like internships and there's ways to volunteer and work for non-for-profits that properly go through a methodology of doing good science and good history.
So if you're going to be a part of taking stuff off of wrecks and keeping it or donating it to a museum or whatever, doing it the right way scholastically through a true archaeological study or historical study and documenting it and taking those artifacts and preserving them and putting them in a place that they can be of continued use, like in a museum or in a library or wherever.
that wherever source that people can look to for knowledge, I think that's probably the best way to do it. If you want to get into treasure hunting, put a moral or ethical code behind it and do it for a good reason. And maybe they'll put your name on a plaque somewhere in front of the exhibit and then you'll get your little dive artifact associated, you know?
Jay (33:35.318)
There you go. Yeah, because I think one of the key things here that you brought up a minute ago, but maybe to give some language to it, is that...
A lot of these sites, whether they be shipwrecks or cities or whatever it might be, right, you know, old agricultural spaces, whatever you're in the site, they're considered quote unquote non-renewable, which means that once we interact with them as divers, whatever we do, even if we silt them up in some way, but not as bad, but when we start taking stuff from them, they can't be put.
back to where they were. In other words, we're degrading the data or we're losing information, the minute that we start interacting and taking things from them, because the, you know, the story I was telling earlier about the coins, the reason that they drew the conclusion that it was ubiquitous across the crew is because of the location relative to other spaces of the ship direct
of where they found me. So they said, Look, like this is captain's quarters and crew quarters. So this is all over the place. So that location where they found them actually matter not just not just that they found them, but where they were matter in putting that story together.
Greg W (34:56.292)
Yeah. And how much of where you found what, you know, where there more or less coins and where there more coins in the captain's quarters and there were in the crew quarters. You know, if you have something like you got to think from a historical aspect to of putting yourself in the shoes of the people on that ship. Was there anything really on that ship that the captain didn't know what was going on. You know, so that's another thing that you can sort of look at and see how involved the
Jay (35:05.911)
Right.
Jay (35:18.027)
Right?
Greg W (35:25.208)
upper echelons of that chain of command really were in the ongoing lives of their crew members.
Jay (35:32.542)
Yeah, yeah. Well, then I think maybe like a good, maybe a rule of thumb. Let's come up with, with Jay and Greg's rule of thumb to, uh, to balancing this. Like in my mind, I think, okay, cause it is, I've been on dives where you find something and it's exciting. Like it is, oh my gosh. Cause the whole time you're looking at stuff and then all of a sudden you go like, Whoa, you know, even if it's a beer bottle, right? It's as silly as that sounds. Um,
Greg W (35:39.512)
Yes.
Right.
Jay (36:02.686)
A good rule of thumb, I think in general is you can always come back. So document what you found. And then if you think, you know, you want to take it, uh, then like get, find a way to interact with, like you're saying, an actual, archeological, uh, society or academic research, um, get connected in some way, which won't take a lot of work. Probably a couple of questions, right? To figure out, Hey,
Greg W (36:31.507)
Go on Google.
Jay (36:32.726)
Yeah, go on Google, right? Google did that for me. And then be able to say, Hey, look, I found this thing. Here's a picture of it or here's where it was. Here's the location. I'd really like to take it or like, you know, or I'm going back to take it. Should I not? Right. Or whatever it would be, but at least there's that pause in that first anxiety and an excitement of like, should I take it or should I not? And
Greg W (36:47.75)
Okay.
Jay (36:59.758)
And I think that that's a good like you said if you're gonna get into the treasure hunting stuff You know do it with an ethic and a moral behind it and I think those ethics and morals are to say Yeah, how does this contribute to our understanding collectively publicly of these things? And if I just take it for myself as either monetary gain or something cool to hang on the wall or build a coffee table out of You know, what am I what it's the cost the larger cost there and I think those are you know?
Again, there's a little gray area here. There's not a like not everything of the beer bottle that's at the bottom of the lake, you know, the dive site.
Greg W (37:34.116)
Yeah, I'm not worried about the 2022 Coca-Cola can that you found. Yeah. But like, you know, if you find, like, a hundred years from now, I think there's, there's probably enough Coca-Cola cans out there. I don't, that's, that's like, if you, when you go like Megalodon tooth hunting off, like the coast of North Carolina, like I love going to find Megalodon teeth, right? Like, am I really stealing from a paleontologist if I take one or two Megalodon teeth off?
Jay (37:38.81)
Yeah, exactly. Right. But 100 years from now, they might be, right?
Jay (37:50.154)
and we're safe to take the coke.
Greg W (38:03.728)
the ocean floor out there like that's mean I don't I doubt it. But I mean, who knows? I don't know.
Jay (38:11.926)
Yeah, yeah. See, this is the meat of the, this is the meat. I don't know if we got a rule yet, but yeah, this is the meat of the debate in some ways in terms of where you are. But I think you're right. Like the ethic and the moral around it is what's most important. And then we figure out what to do from there. So there we go.
Greg W (38:31.977)
There is a consequence to every action you take and whether or not those consequences will ever catch up to you is a totally different story.
Jay (38:42.03)
True, true, yeah. Spoken like a true MP, there you go. Ha ha ha.
Greg W (38:47.129)
Don't do that to me. Oh, geez. I thought well. I know.
Jay (38:50.958)
I outed you, I outed you. By the way, did you do your basic training at Camp Pendleton or where did you do your basic for Marines?
Greg W (38:56.156)
No, I went to boot camp at Parris Island.
Jay (38:59.37)
Okay, okay. I was curious, literally Camp Pendleton's like 20 minutes from my house, so I was curious.
Greg W (39:03.492)
Yeah. Oh, I'm so sorry. Oh, yeah, you're right by San Diego, aren't you? So you probably see all these guys with the tactical backpacks and the short high and tight haircuts and their shirts tucked in and they're always wearing a belt. You know, the shoelaces go left over right.
Jay (39:08.842)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jay (39:13.359)
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Jay (39:20.862)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's funny, in my barber shop the other day, I always got my haircut because I needed one. And there was a old sign that said, certified flat top specialist. That definitely came from Pendleton, for sure, for sure. That was an advertisement for Pendleton.
Greg W (39:37.584)
Oh no. There's there's some there's some first sergeant out there that goes out of his way to get his haircut there twice a week.
Jay (39:47.366)
That's right. Yeah. That's right. Flat top specialist. Well, good. Uh, you know, I think, I think that's super interesting now that we've kind of covered at least some of the, the topic, but let's maybe get into how do you become one. So I'm a treasure hunter. I'm interested in it or recovering from that, or look, this sounds super interesting. I just got into diving or I've been in diving for years and man, it would be really interesting to do some underwater archeology.
How do you become an underwater archeologist? I mean, what's the process? Who do you work for? I mean, when you graduate and you are credentialed, like what types of jobs are you gonna be looking for? What are the job posts out there? And kind of what is the pinnacle? Like is there a pinnacle of the industry where you're doing this type of underwater archeology versus this type? I'm curious, because I really don't know how you become.
Greg W (40:43.98)
let you know as soon as I figure it out. I'm still working on my bachelor's degree. I'm not even close to getting there, but it's a path I want to go down. So as far as, because I just recently joined a non-for-profit 5013C, yeah whatever, the tax code, I'm not a accountant. Yeah, so I just, I just,
Jay (40:46.27)
Okay.
Jay (41:02.862)
3C. Yeah, yeah.
Jay (41:08.066)
Thank God. No offense. Accountants out there. My brain doesn't work that way.
Greg W (41:14.024)
Yeah, no, oh god, I can't do numbers like that. But I just joined an organization, it's a non-for-profit that does underwater archeological stuff. And they have a, they're partners with the Nautical Association, Nautical Archeological Association, the NAS. And they do training, the NAS is mostly a European thing, but they do have some tie-ins here in the States.
And they put volunteers and people that sign up for this 501.3C, this non-for-profit, through the NAS training for documentation and measurements and all that stuff. So you can go and, I mean, even just like regular archaeology, you can look up like historical trusts and stuff for your state, like the Maryland Historical Trust. They look for volunteers to help out on digs. And they'll like...
You show up on site and they teach you how to dig and they set you up with someone more experienced and you work under the supervision of a credentialed archaeologist who is conducting the studies. So if you want to just get into archaeology in general, you could start there. You can look for the non-for-profits that are established. Non-for-profits are really just established as basically businesses to get grant money to go and do this stuff.
to work for governments or universities. So you can look up any of these historical trusts or any of these non-for-profits and see if you can get involved through that. If you actually want to be an archeologist, you need some sort of formal training or education through a university. So basically a master's or a PhD in anthropology, archeology, history.
something like that. But internships and volunteerism are a great way to start building your resume and start getting involved in it.
Jay (43:17.342)
Yeah. So in other words, you know, there isn't a specialty course to go get a C card for this, right? So there, oh, there are, okay.
Greg W (43:23.232)
There are there are some universe look they're not like it's not like a certification course you can get at your local dive shop They do have like scientific diving cards and stuff like that, but for the most part if you're gonna actually get into the meat and potatoes of true archaeological study you have to go through a university and There are some universities that offer courses and masters degrees in underwater
Jay (43:30.711)
Right, right, right.
Greg W (43:52.612)
Archaeology as a specialization. So there's one program at ECU that I've been looking at for underwater archaeology and they've got all sorts of classes that go into like ship reconstruction and Stuff like that. There's one at Texas A&M there's Another one in Miami University. I think yeah has an underwater archaeology program. So it's out there
Jay (44:14.494)
Florida right? Yeah.
Jay (44:19.978)
Yeah, I think there's only like three or four in the whole country that when my research that I found that actually do this as a master's or PhD program, right? Yeah.
Greg W (44:27.34)
as a specialty. Yeah, yeah. That I know. But if you can find more, let me know because I'm going to have to apply to all of them eventually. So the accuracy by volume at that point, one of them has to accept me into the program.
Jay (44:35.506)
Yeah, there you go. Exactly. Yeah.
Jay (44:43.246)
There you go. Exactly. There you go. That's a good way to think about it. Yeah, I mean.
Greg W (44:46.532)
Maybe after all this good publicity I'm giving them, they'll accept me in as a.
Jay (44:51.318)
There you go. You'll send them this podcast and see, look, this is why you should accept me. I'm also an internet star.
Greg W (44:59.722)
Well, geez, the last thing I ever want to be is an internet influencer. Ugh.
Jay (45:03.534)
Oh man, that's a tough gig. We should do an episode on that. What is internet, yeah, what is that? I have the face for it, obviously.
Greg W (45:08.486)
Well, the scuba diving Instagram influencers.
Greg W (45:16.204)
all one. Well, as you were in a pocket on the UTD podcast a little while ago, and I forget his name. Yeah, the guy from Texas where he said that I have a voice for print and a face for radio or something.
Jay (45:29.754)
Yeah, yeah, Daniel. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, no, that was Chris. Yeah, Chris. That's right. Yeah, Chris. The skydiver. Yeah, he's got that good Texas draw. Yeah, when he talks. That's right.
Greg W (45:36.06)
Chris yet Chris the he's the skydiver.
Greg W (45:42.128)
Oh yeah, that slow Texas Southern drawl.
Jay (45:45.602)
Slow Texas draw, that's right, yeah. No, that's cool. I mean, and I think too, if this is something that you're thinking about, becoming an underwater archeologist or volunteering, and I think that's an amazing way to get involved. I mean, that Greg's kind of laying out here in that a lot of these organizations doing this work are not necessarily for profit. So they don't have a big budget, they're not making a job post out there and paying a bunch of people that...
that they rely on volunteerism and people that are interested in contributing to the greater knowledge base that we can discover there. I think from my perspective, again, I think there's two things maybe to add to it is one is obviously this requires some dive skills. So please don't be the diver that goes, yeah, I'm interested in this. And then.
you know, silt up the site and breaks a bunch of stuff because you can't control your buoyancy. So, you know, I think I think thinking about your own training and your own skills and getting those things dialed in because as we mentioned, these are non renewable resources, right? So once you get in there, and you mess something up, if that's based on a lack of your skills being, you know, dialed in, that can be a problem. They're sensitive bottoms, you're in unknown environments.
Greg W (46:42.854)
Yeah.
Jay (47:09.566)
I think that your foundation needs to be strong to make sure to preserve that environment. So again, there's a level of, hey, let's check in and make sure that I am squared away with my own dive skills. I feel comfortable. It's been the theme of this season is this word comfortable, but I'm comfortable under the water and feeling control of I can stop when I need to, I can get to where I need to go, all those sorts of things. And if you're honest with yourself, that takes time.
Greg W (47:16.113)
Mm-hmm.
Jay (47:39.182)
It takes training. It takes effort to get to that place. Some, I'm, I mean, I remember when I'm a new diver, I'd want to be over there or I'd want to stop, but I couldn't, I didn't know how or, but I still felt like I wanted to contribute. I was so excited about it. So there's that piece. And then I think there's another, Oh, go ahead. Sorry.
Greg W (47:47.56)
Bye.
Greg W (47:55.504)
Yeah. Oh no, I was gonna say, you know, like that's what you were talking about wanting to look like, or I wanna be there, I wanna go there, I wanna look like that guy in the water. I think one of the most important things that someone can have, especially as a new diver, is a bit of humility and recognizing that they need to work on something. You know, it's like if you, oh yeah, especially. But like, you know, you were going about like,
Jay (48:18.486)
Yeah. And even older divers too. Same thing. Yeah.
Greg W (48:25.288)
You know, you don't want to be the guy that drops into a piece of pottery and breaks it in half. But you also don't want to be the guy that silks up the whole dive site because that makes it one. It makes everybody else's job much more difficult. But also, like part of the process is documenting. And that means video and photography. And if you silt up the whole area.
Jay (48:30.654)
All right.
Greg W (48:51.208)
you're not getting anything done because you can't take the photographs you need to take before you salvage or collect these artifacts. So crashing into the bottom and stirring up the whole thing is a surefire way of costing whatever organization or university you're working for time and money even if it doesn't do any permanent damage.
Jay (48:59.458)
Right.
Jay (49:14.038)
Yeah. I think that that's an important piece. And it always comes back to that, right? That diving is a skill and it's a skill that we develop through practice and training and effort. It's not just a you get in the water and whatever happens, happens. You know, I think that that's a bad way to approach it. Whether you've been diving for 20 years or you've been diving for a year, there's a level of, hey, can I get some proper evaluation and some proper feedback? Not just the C card.
to know that I'm comfortable and in control under the water before I decide that, hey, I'll go in and dig up some coins on this cool wreck here, right? Because I didn't think that there's, you know, I was even watching this documentary once on treasure hunting, more or less, under the water. And I'm just going, oh my gosh, these guys are such crap divers. Like, if they just had a little bit of control, this would...
this episode would be 10 minutes long rather than the full hour they had to just have them bumping into things and all that stuff. So anyway, that's my own little judgment of a bad me, shame on me. But the other thing I was going to mention here too is I think that there are academically driven projects that exist out there. And those are really important and places where we can volunteer.
Greg W (50:22.322)
Yeah.
Jay (50:41.758)
I think there are also local or publicly driven projects that can be spun up with the affiliation and support and knowledge behind them of maybe an academic institution or a nonprofit that does these things. That if there's, you know, we call them a UTD curiosity projects, you know, projects, hey, I'm curious about this. How do I apply a scientific method to understand this better? And it's not just archaeology. It could be.
you know, waterway conservation, it could be, you know, opening up new passages in a cave or something like that. But these citizen scientist projects, I think, are really important as well. It's not to say that they should only be citizen science projects. Some of them, that's the scale. A university wouldn't get involved in some of these, right? In other ones, they can be generated from your own curiosity as a diver, something that you've discovered or something you've seen.
that you bring into that academic setting or into that nonprofit setting. And so I think that the one, yeah, square away your dive skills, if there's something interesting. And two is what are those curiosity projects that, that you have, right? In your local dive site, in the diving you've done, you know, why, you know, how can you bring or sprit spin up a project? Um, and what, what scale is that? Is that really kind of, Hey, I'm a citizen scientist and take some pictures,
You know, see if I can recover these artifacts, if I get the green light there, and that's the end of it. Or does it become a much bigger academic pursuit that you really found something and there's – it warrants that type of effort and things. So I think those are ways that you can get involved in this practice of underwater archaeology and helping contribute to kind of our understanding of human beings' interactions with waterways and the artifacts that exist under the water there.
Greg W (52:33.628)
Yeah, I mean, you can take, I guess, really almost any sort of scientific field and apply it to the underwater world. Geology, for example, I mean, people study caves. The Speleological Society, I think, is the big one that does work with the WKPP. And I mean, like, that's all underwater science. I think...
Jay (52:49.015)
Mm-hmm.
Jay (52:52.844)
Mm-hmm.
Greg W (53:00.008)
Probably the only thing that you really can't relate to the underwater world outside of like the NASA Neutral buoyancy lab is like astronomy. Yeah but it's oh Yeah, okay. Yeah, there you go the moon and the tides and Sure, I don't know if that'd be considered more oceanography, but there's certainly an interdisciplinary approach to everything
Jay (53:07.99)
Yeah. Well tides, I mean tides and all those things, you know, yeah.
Greg W (53:28.6)
scientific, you know. You needed, underwater archaeologists need the help of anthropologists and historians and you know it's not just one career field that makes the magic happen, it's a team effort.
Jay (53:45.278)
Right? Well, good. Well, maybe let's wrap this one up here in the end if there's any advice that we might have for people. So you've listened to this, you go, oh, this is cool. I didn't know about this practice or this field. And yeah, I wanna look into how I can get involved. You know, do we have any advice that we might offer in terms of getting involved, you know, as a, whether it's recreational or a hobbyist all the way up to, I'm gonna.
you'll get my PhD in this. What do you think? What are some, some maybe thoughts you have?
Greg W (54:20.904)
I mean, I haven't gotten there yet, so it's kind of hard for me to spit out any advice other than what I've had relayed on to me. But just taking the first steps to get involved. Go in open-minded, volunteer, and see if you can gain some hands-on experience, and network, and see what other steps you can do to get closer to your goal.
You know, if you just keep doing the next thing that you have to do, eventually you'll get there. So that's what I'm doing.
Jay (54:57.034)
Yeah. And I think, I think too, for me, my only two cents to add here is, you know, that, that whole pseudo archeology, pseudo history that you're talking about before, right? Um, you know, I think that these are, these are things to maybe avoid in a way of getting involved, right?
Greg W (55:08.628)
I'll open it.
Greg W (55:15.876)
Yes, as much as I would love for it to be true and would love to be the one to find it, I unfortunately do not think Atlantis is a real thing. The closest to, I mean, I was a big fan of that, what was it, like 1999 Atlantis movie from Disney and the Animated One. Great film, inspired a whole.
Jay (55:40.528)
Oh yeah, I forgot to do that one.
Greg W (55:43.832)
generation of Atlantis enthusiasts. But I think the closest thing to like a real Atlantis is probably the Mycenaeans in Plato's writing, but it's, I don't know. It's not, oh, you know what? I hope he finds it. I genuinely hope I'm wrong because I would be the happiest person in the world if Atlantis was a real place. I just don't, I can't, I can't back it. I can't do it.
Jay (55:52.011)
Mm-hmm.
Jay (55:56.759)
James Cameron is after it, man. He's after it though.
Jay (56:13.194)
You can't get there, huh? Are there any flying saucers under the ocean somewhere, you think? For sure. Ha ha ha.
Greg W (56:14.851)
No
Oh, for sure. I mean, we the gulf. For sure, the government has been lying to us about aliens this whole time, but you know, aliens are aliens. And the government's saying that they're not real. You know, they're real. Plato saying that it's real. It's not.
Jay (56:25.219)
Yeah, so that's where they really are.
Jay (56:31.147)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, there you go. Yeah, yeah, you can't trust that, that Plato dude. He asked too many questions when the, that stupid Socratic method that he subscribes to with the, you know, his pals there. Uh, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean.
Greg W (56:37.undefined)
Can't trust Play Loader. Those silly philosophers.
Greg W (56:49.703)
He's just a good, he's a goon for big philosophy, that's all.
Jay (56:53.97)
Yeah, that's all it is. They just ask why a lot. It's no good to talk about those things. Yeah, and I think too, like anything, the network that you develop, I mean, it sounds like for you, that's been a huge part of this. The network that you've developed and cultivated and been a part of, but it's also that you've contributed to in a lot of ways. So I think that that's part of...
the community aspect of diving is whatever type of diving you're getting into is that network. It's a small world. The more and more that I get involved in diving, the more I realize just how small of a world it is in terms of people. And everyone kind of knows everybody in some way, or it's like the, was it the seven points of connection to Kevin Bacon? I forget the, like there's always like.
Greg W (57:45.075)
What?
Jay (57:47.394)
There's this game, I forget what it's called. Someone's gonna totally call me out on this, but it's like, you can name any actor and within seven movies, get back to a movie that he was in with Kevin Bacon, or she was in with Kevin Bacon. I forget what it is.
Greg W (57:58.928)
This sounds like a Saturday Night Live skit.
Jay (58:03.398)
It might have been, I don't know where it came from, but yeah, it's like seven degrees of Kevin Bacon or something like that. I forget what it is.
Greg W (58:08.572)
seven degrees of, okay, I'm gonna have to look this one up. It sounds familiar.
Jay (58:11.198)
Yeah, you gotta don't quote me on it. But it is a thing. It's a thing. I know it's a thing. I just don't know the title of it. So someone's gonna reach out to us and tell us, you know, hey, idiots, it's this thing but
Greg W (58:23.66)
I think what we should do for episode three is we should do the seven steps of Kevin Bacon to underwater archaeology.
Jay (58:30.198)
There we go. Here's this pirate ship that sunk out in Jamaica. How does it connect to Kevin Bacon?
Greg W (58:36.753)
Well, I'll see you. Underwater archaeology is a study, goes to universities. Universities teach art. Filmmaking is an art. This is a movie about underwater archaeology. Movies have actors. Kevin Bacon is an actor. There we go.
Jay (58:50.298)
Oh, well, see, look, you see you played the game. I could go faster. I'll beat you in it. I'll do one degree. No, two degrees. Underwater archeologists are human beings. Human beings eat bacon. Ha ha ha!
Greg W (59:04.12)
I'm sorry.
Jay (59:06.806)
Some human beings eat bacon. And Kevin Bacon, his last name is Bacon. So there we go. Three degrees, there are three degrees, I got that. Fair enough. Ha ha ha.
Greg W (59:09.54)
Ugh.
That's three steps. Hmm, okay, fair enough. Ooh, I don't know if I can beat two. I'll have to sleep on that one.
Jay (59:19.958)
Yeah, yeah, well, next episode, we'll see what comes up. Well, good. Well, Greg, it's been a blast on this show. I mean, gosh, it's such a big topic. Hopefully, we've at least given a little bit of justice to the tip of the iceberg here. But yeah, today, we focused on this underwater archaeology subject. And if you're out there listening to this, we want to hear your thoughts. If you have your full credential.
and have a recommendation on which school Greg should actually apply to, that would be great for him. Reach out, or if you're interested in this, what's interesting about it to you. So please reach out, let us know your thoughts. We'd love to hear from you as always. And yeah, any parting thoughts, Greg, that you've got going on?
Greg W (01:00:04.752)
Yeah, if you are an underwater archaeologist and you have some advice for me, or if you have a job opening, you think I'd be a good fit for it, yeah, let me know. I don't know, should I just give them my email? Is that allowed?
Jay (01:00:14.257)
Bye!
Jay (01:00:25.802)
Uh, uh, yeah, that's up to you, man. That's, uh, that's totally up to you.
Greg W (01:00:28.709)
Uh, you know what, I'll hold off on that and make them listen to the next two episodes.
Jay (01:00:32.566)
There you go. End of episode three, you will reveal your email address, which is like big, sexy Greg Wolf at.
Greg W (01:00:37.712)
Yes, and uh, oh You have with my podcast voice I gotta deepen my voice No, um if you enjoyed this episode and you want to keep growing in the community Join us by making sure you subscribe to the podcast on Spotify or Apple or
Jay (01:00:45.01)
yahoo.mail.go.gov.org. now.
Greg W (01:01:02.512)
whatever we're streaming on right now in your home or in your car and get notified when episodes drops. Drop. What about you? You got anything?
Jay (01:01:13.898)
No, I think it's just fun. I honestly wanna go watch Indiana Jones right now. I think there's a new one coming out actually, isn't there? Or is it already out? Okay, okay, I haven't seen it.
Greg W (01:01:21.952)
I think it's already out. Yeah, I don't know. I mean Indiana Jones destroys every archaeological site he touches. Is he is he is he really an archaeologist? Does he follow the scientific method?
Jay (01:01:30.178)
This is true.
Jay (01:01:34.982)
Yeah, but that he's not the one destroying it's the Nazis and the ghosts and the all those other guys that are destroying he's just you know he's there for the for the love.
Greg W (01:01:43.504)
You know what? He is going in there for the sake of collecting artifacts and preserving them. So maybe he is a good archaeologist. Maybe you're right. Maybe just the universe is working against him.
Jay (01:01:53.516)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think those Nazis just have it out for him. And he, you know, unfortunately has to interact with them. And that's just the way it goes for him. I don't know, I feel bad for him. But, you know, I would, I just, those movies were so amazing as a kid for me. It's just like, you know, but the new ones just have not hit for me. I don't know, it just doesn't do it.
Greg W (01:02:00.157)
Yeah.
Greg W (01:02:07.08)
Um, yeah.
Greg W (01:02:21.904)
It's not the Harrison Ford that we grow up with. Speaking of Indiana Jones, you know that there's one scene in one of the older movies where he comes face to face with a guy wielding a scimitar. This dude is like doing all these like fancy moves and he pulls out his revolver and shoots him.
Jay (01:02:27.01)
Get off my plane!
Greg W (01:02:48.004)
Apparently the part of that movie, he was like actually supposed to fight the guy. But Harrison Ford improvised just like kind of like smirking at him a little bit and then pulling out his revolver and shooting him as part of the scene because he was sick that day and he didn't really like want to go through like the fight sequence of it. So that apparently I don't know how true this is, but apparently he just made that up and they.
Jay (01:02:48.033)
Yeah.
Greg W (01:03:12.664)
I guess the director liked it so much that they shot it a second time or a third time and they ended up adding that part into the script. So little fun movie factoid. Yeah Harrison Ford. Harrison Ford is a great actor just like Kevin Bacon. That's two steps.
Jay (01:03:21.366)
Well, there you go. Things you should know about underwater archeology is that gunshot.
Jay (01:03:29.814)
There you go. See Harrison Ford to Kevin Bacon. How many steps? There we go. See? Yeah, exactly. All right. Well, great. Looking forward to episode two. Great. Thanks again for being on the show.
Greg W (01:03:40.552)
Yeah, my pleasure, man. Thanks for having me.
