Thank you for joining the Dive Table Community!
April 29, 2023

How Do You Know When You're Working in the Dive Industry: Balancing Work Dive-Life with Dive Work-Life with Jack Der PART II S2E6

How Do You Know When You're Working in the Dive Industry:  Balancing Work Dive-Life with Dive Work-Life with Jack Der PART II S2E6

Jack Der S2E6

How Do You Know When You're Working in the Dive Industry 

Part II


Jay (34:33.409)If you're not watching the video, there were air quotes for the nines. I think that's the first time I've seen air quoted a start time. I love that. That's great. We're on jack time here. Nine ish. There you go.

Jack Der (34:44.471)Um, there you go.

Jack Der (34:48.630)Ish is part of, yeah, hence the dive times are always like, yeah, we're gonna meet at eight ish. So I'm looking at diving as fun, right? Cause I'm not doing instructing and all this other stuff like that. So because you're dealing with it on a five day a week, nine to five, you're dealing with that. You wanna just get out and just go dive for fun, right? I mean, it's not that I don't take diving serious.

Jay (34:56.443)That's right.

Jack Der (35:19.050)I turn into protective mode. Are my buddies safe? Are they here? Do they see where we're going? Do they recognize that there's current blowing us this way and we need to go over here? So I move into that mode of like corralling, making sure everyone's safe type of thing. And of course then there's other days where I'm.

Jay (35:42.612)Ha!

Jack Der (35:42.790)I'm like, what's the fish, the bluefish and finding Nemo Dora or Dory. Sometimes I'm like, oh, look. But otherwise, you know, I mean, you gotta have fun, right? So even if you're instructing at some point in time, you need to go out and do something other than, you know, I tease, you know, other people. It's like, dude, you need to go do more than just a 20 foot training dive, right? Sometimes you need to just go have fun with, you know,

Jay (35:47.888)Dory, Dory, yeah.

Jay (36:08.712)Yep.

Jack Der (36:12.930)and go out and kind of like relax, Right? So sometimes that's kind of hard being, you know, cause like I said, you work in it every day of the week and then I still go diving on the weekend. So it's seven days a week is diving related one way or the other.

Jay (36:18.228)Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jay (36:31.652)Mm-hmm.

Jay (36:33.888)Yeah, I'm not at that point yet that you're at. And I have asked myself the question, like, how do I make scuba what I do? Right? Like, how do I, that's it. How does it pay the bills? And there isn't a clear pathway. Yeah, that's the question. How does it, I can make it be what I want to be, but I can't pay my bills, right? That's the other joke that, what was it? I can't remember, something about pizza.

Jack Der (36:47.750)Good question, right there.

Jay (37:04.009)But yeah, I'll remember it at some point. It's funny.

Jack Der (37:04.970)Oh yeah, enjoy eating pizza the rest of your life. Frozen pizza.

Jay (37:08.608)Yeah. Do you enjoy eating pizza the rest of your life? Yeah. Exactly. Then, uh, scuba instruction might be for you, but yeah, the, um, I think the, the interesting thing about it is in walking that line between passion and profession. And when those two things can blend into kind of a, uh, a beautiful, um, combination, then I think it's really sustainable, right? Because, because life isn't just paying the bills.

right? There's, there is a lifestyle and there is so much more richness that can come than just dollar bills. On the flip side, there's a responsibility, right? Whatever that level you have, whether it be to your family or to yourself or, or to your creditors, whatever, whatever one it is, that you, you, there's a reality that you have to pay the bills too. So I think like, for me, it's always dangerous to just say, follow your passions, because it can also lead you down a

where those passions get squashed or the realities overwhelm the passion. But I think blending the two, it's really important not to get so atrophied into, like you say, the 20 foot training dives, watching people take off their masks and put them back on, that you lose the passion for it, that it becomes something that you're dreading to do.

Jay (38:38.688)love with it that you aren't beIng responsible with what you need to do in real life. So that's the fine line. That's the boundaries that you have to walk. And I think for me as an entrepreneur, that has always been a fine line of walk. And there have been things that are startups that I've started that I was super passionate about and there's been others that I saw as an opportunity. And so there's a balance there too.

So yeah, I think what is it like being a diver first and a dive industry pro second? I think it's walking that tight, tight rope in some ways, um, to maintain that, that level of passion that you, the diving first and foremost is fun recreational. It's, it's my wild, right? It's where I go to be like, I was explaining it the last night. Sorry. Um, I was explaining last night that I was talking to somebody about their

They were recently in Africa and they said, you know, this is the first time I felt like human, like I'm a human being in a planet, you know, like that I belong in some ways. And I said, yeah, you know, for me, diving is that because I feel like I shed everything off and it's just me in the water, even though I'm wearing all this gear, all of the other thoughts and stresses and all of the, they just disappear, they dissipate when I'm diving. And that's that

Jack Der (40:06.092)Mm-hmm.

Jay (40:08.588)passion like coming forward.

Jack Der (40:10.930)Yeah, I mean, it's not just scuba diving. I mean, if you're in any, if you take your hobby or your passion and make it work, at some point in time, if the two start conflicting with that, take a step back, you know, and go, hey, you know, what's going on? I gotta make sure that I don't lose my passion for diving. You know, or is it maybe take up a different part of the diving, right? Maybe, like I said, go into photography

everything costs ten times more because you flood your camera and all that stuff. But I'm not saying I didn't do that, but um.

Jay (40:49.708)There's video somewhere out there.

Jack Der (40:51.390)Yeah, no, it definitely flooded it.

Jay (40:53.568)Thanks for watching!

Jack Der (40:56.390)But you gotta step back sometimes and just go, hey, I still gotta go out there and go surfing, right? I still gotta go diving, whatever it is, you still wanna make it fun. You can't make it so it's bringing you down. I mean, that's part of why you got into it, right?

Jay (41:14.308)Yeah, I think that's good advice. ANd maybe we can wrap this one up with some advice here, which is, what advice do you have for someone wanting to give into industry? So if we haven't scared you away from it, that there's a balance here, and there isn't really a clear definition of when you're in the industry, when you're not, from a mindset perspective at least, like how do you go about making Scuba what you do, a full-time gig? Is it worth it to even try?

Jack Der (41:26.250)Thanks for watching!

Jay (41:44.910)now that you wish you had known when you started kind of getting into the industry side of things.

Jack Der (41:51.390)Yeah, I mean, but like I said, I Kind of backed my way into it, not on purpose, because the job went away. And it was like, Oh, this is interesting. I guess, I mean, for me personally, what it was is, I wish I would have known more about, I guess the, in this case, because I work for a manufacturer, just what goes into everything. I'm learning that even today. I mean, you

Jack Der (42:21.250)It's not like I know how a sewing machine works, right? I mean, I kind of do, but I always break the needles. So it's, but.

Jay (42:29.108)I haven't even tried that.

Jack Der (42:31.750)But the thing is, you got to learn about all these things and how the structure of everything works, right? So I've always been in the computer type industry, so I kind of knew how that worked. And is it the same as manufacturing and scuba diving? No, because technology and manufacturing scuba diving is completely different, right? So I'd say maybe go into a little more of an open mind of it's not necessarily what

Jay (42:52.889)Right.

Jack Der (43:01.790)it is, but do a little bit of research. Right. So I would have should have done look a little more research is just jumping in. It might have made my early years less stressful. But it's, I think it's just kind of like knowing what you're getting into. Right. Because I mean, even if you're going through just a, you

Jack Der (43:31.990)

advance and they go I can be a dive master and you can be an instructor you can make all this money you can live across the world Think about is that really your passion? I mean, I mean could I personally become an instructor and move like to Malaysia or something or Philippines and Do that full-time? Or will I get tired of that right? So it's kind of like What level of this industry?

Jay (43:58.090)Right.

Jack Der (44:01.830)want to get into, right? Is it part-time, full-time? And then is it truly where your career is going? I see people, they go into the sciences part of the ocean, they love it. I kind of in hindsight go, hmm, I would have liked to do that. There's a lot of things I would have liked to do, by the way. Or I could have been an astronaut or worked for NASA, I don't know. They're all dreams that got squashed. But anyways, so I would just

Jay (44:14.632)Yeah.

Jay (44:21.312)Hmph.

Jack Der (44:31.850)into it with a little more knowledge about it and don't get all hyped up like, oh this is what it is. You know, just like anything, check out is it, is this something you really want to do? Is this something that you can be passionate about and continue on? And then so for me it was like, hmm maybe I should have looked into a little bit more and then it made my earlier years easier. And that, I mean, one, actually knowing what the job title was or what they did

Jay (44:55.929)Yeah, yeah.

Jack Der (45:02.242)would have

Jack Der (45:04.470)That was big mistake number one. I'm like, so I'm like in the job interview. So what does account manager do?

Jay (45:12.309)Hey, you got it though. You got it. Somehow it worked. You spell that with a?

Jack Der (45:15.192)I know.

Jay (45:22.468)Okay, okay. Yeah, I know. I know. It starts with a yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think for me, it's interesting because I think they're like, how do you go about making a full time give? I have no idea. I haven't done it yet. But what I found in at least in scuba so far in the I love the fact that you talk about backing into it. I always think about the

Jay (45:52.568)That's not this episode and it won't be ever on the, on the show to get into this. But in my, my world, in my mind, I always think, you know, the, the universe, the world opens doors and sometimes, you know, those doors, we don't see them because, uh, maybe we, we, uh, you know, are blind to them for whatever reason or we're resistant to them. And I've, I've learned time and time again that the philosophy to take into this stuff,

Jay (46:22.768)is to really make a go at it is say yes, back into it. Say yes to that open door and then figure it out. Figure out the details later. You definitely did that. Yeah, look at you. Look where you are now. It's pretty amazing. And I think for me, that's a lesson that I'm learning right now. I'm looking forward to a big announcement pretty soon here, but I can't publicly announce anything yet.

Jack Der (46:34.798)I definitely did that.

Jay (47:01.374)And so I think, you know, there, there's one opportunity presents itself, you know, look for it and, and embrace it in some ways is a way to get into it. And it may not be that, you know, exactly what it's going to be. Right. And you do need to do some due due diligence to balance the realities of, of life against the passion of the person who's doing it. And so I think that's the way to do it. And I think that's the way to do it.

of it, but saying yes, um, and being open to those opportunities, I think is mindset, you know, task number one. And then number two, I think the other piece of advice that I'd have to people that want to get into it. And again, my advice is worth not much because I haven't figured it out yet either. But I also think that the evolution that we talked about earlier, the industry evolving forward, um, what do you bring that no one else can or no one else has?

right to the industry. The reality is that I think Scuba is ripe for new ideas and new ways of thinking and new business models and things. And so, you know, you may be thinking there, oh, well, I only know X. How does that apply? How does X apply to what you can do if this is what you really want to go down the path and do? And for me, that's again, always been something

Jay (48:22.428)okay, well, I'm coming at this new and I have no idea what, like, for example, when you start working for a big organization, um, the you're just an acronym figuring out for like months. Like what does that acronym mean? Like, what does that one stand for? What does that one like, I have no idea what, what sentence that was right. Like at all. Um,

Jack Der (48:43.210)I worked for a company like that. It was a government related company. I They're like, oh my god. What what what was that me? They're looking at me like What are you doing here? I mean, it's like I'm like, uh No, I have no idea what you're talking about. I mean, I thought I was an expert but you guys are throwing out all the Governments like the worst Yeah

Jay (48:52.808)Yeah, sorry.

Jay (49:04.168)Yeah. All the short hair.

Jay (49:08.588)No, exactly. And I mean, I think like, but but that there's a value to not knowing those things in some ways, because it's a fresh mindset. So what do you bring? Right? What can you bring that no one else has? And it's beautiful, in some ways. So that would be my own two cents.

Jack Der (49:17.992)Right.

Jack Der (49:21.590)Yeah, I mean, and just look at how the dive industry from a historic standpoint came around. How did dive gear get made? How did the back plate come about? You know, why is it that everything looks like it came from the hardware store?

Jay (49:39.068)Because it did. Exactly.

Jack Der (49:39.310)Right? Probably because it did. So there's a lot of ways you can innovate, but yet in a lot of ways, it's just a rehashing of something that was done 30 years ago in just a new way. So it depends on where you are in that perspective. Is it something truly new? I mean, obviously technology is playing a huge part in the dive industry now, right?

Jack Der (50:09.290)this other stuff right so but it goes back to can you improve a pair of fins I don't know I'd like to say no you can't but but

Jay (50:21.308)I totally agree. My jets are all I need.

Jack Der (50:25.690)So I'm not gonna go down that road again, bash a piece of dive gear. But are you, do you have, you know, there's ways, you know, the industry itself, just from a manufacturing standpoint, there's a lot of areas where you could come in with something new. I mean, it's, even at DUI, it's this new material, or how do we put this together?

Jay (50:29.848)Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ha ha ha.

Jack Der (50:55.730)something you know that the customer end user will go oh it's nothing new but it's done better. So there's a lot of ways to innovate too in the dive industry right now. We just got to find those things.

Jay (51:03.332)Mm-hmm.

Jay (51:07.428)Yeah. And I think on top of that, I think on top of that too, to add, add to that, I think, you know, also what I've noticed in some organizations, manufacturing in particular, that there's also an evolution of a business model, right? You were mentioning that earlier that, that there's, you know, the old way of, of kind of manufacturing, selling, uh, marketing things is shifting. And I think that there's room there as well.

And I think that's true on the, on the agency side of the house as well. I mean, I mean, think there's a lot that scuba is so young in a lot of ways as an industry, right? When you compare it to other industries, it's, it's really young when it comes to that, uh, you know, the history of it. And it's not a ginormous industry in the sense that, you know, it's not like, cause you could say technology as an industry, which is a really big,

Jay (52:07.368)like industry, like word, right, or umbrella, but is younger, but it's completely global saturated, right? Diving will never become globally saturated. It's never going to be that because it's a recreation. But at the same time, there's a lot of evolution. There's a lot of conversation as well around bringing diversity.

Jack Der (52:13.013)Mm-hmm.

Jay (52:37.588)ethnicity and background and cultural perspective, but also from an economic perspective to diving. And there's so much that because it's such an amazing experience being underwater, it's such an incredible opportunity to be in nature and really an untouched, I won't say it that far, but because we definitely as humans have touched the ocean,

Jack Der (52:58.050)Mm-hmm.

Jay (53:07.448)in a really foreign environment in nature. It's amazing that that opportunity exists, you know, for others to bring in other ways of thinking about that. So yeah.

Jack Der (53:18.830)Yeah, I mean, that's, I mean, it comes down to that thing I was talking about with the, you know, the more divers that you have diving, the better it is for everybody. And in general, you can kind of see.

Jack Der (53:33.010)frequent divers, you know, the me's, the you's, where you're diving every week, that person's model is smaller than it used to be, right? So, because now, I mean, I'm not obviously part of the young millennial group, but their way of thinking is different than, you know, an older diver's way of thinking. They find a passion, they latch onto it, and they keep diving.

Jack Der (54:02.870)manufacturer standpoint, it's not like they're buying new gear all the time. So you've got to get the new divers that come in, but the younger generation that's coming in, they're not diving as a frequent diver. They're not necessarily diving every week. They go on a trip and they'll dive. And then two years later, they'll go on another trip and maybe do one or two dives and they're just renting gear. You know, so are they really, yes, they're divers, but are they buying stuff in the industry? And so that's.

Jay (54:06.768)Alright.

Jack Der (54:33.310)I would say the scuba diving is such a small market and has so much potential to grow We just need to get it somehow that passion model into it to get people diving more frequently You know, I mean I see You know East West Coast. There's less dive boats than there used to be You know, why is that, you know, but yet people are still traveling for vacation to go diving

Jay (54:46.712)Yeah.

Jack Der (55:03.431)you know, the cold water. Sometimes I don't blame them. But that's why they're supposed to buy a dry suit. But, you know, it's just...

Jay (55:05.268)I'm not gonna...

Jack Der (55:14.550)Getting people past that, I'm checking off the box, like I've done scuba diving, and then they go and do their bungee, whatever, blah, blah, blah, they do all these different things. We want them to get passionate about that. And the only way to get that passion is by the people that are diving, to have that passion passed on to the other people.

Jay (55:32.608)Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, speaking from maybe more of a training perspective than a manufacturing perspective, which is, which is cool. I didn't realize we would, we would to this episode into the episodes we're doing together, we get to kind of bring those two sides of the coin together in some ways, which is cool. But from a training perspective, my running thesis right now is a lot of people stop diving or don't, don't dive more frequently

Jay (56:02.568)They don't have that community we talked about in the last episode we did, or they haven't built those relationships yet that allow them to feel comfortable diving with someone. Or, I saw it so clearly the other day, I was dive mastering a local event that's a certification course, but I was just there to basically make sure no one got too far.

Jack Der (56:06.971)Mm-hmm.

Jay (56:32.568)this particular part of the spring. And so we have to be careful that, you know, people don't run into the propeller of one, right? I mean, that's, that's a, the brutal honest truth. Like that was my job. Um, and what I saw, you know, was, was just this, this really, um, blatant discomfort under the water, probably like, I don't know, 10 divers in the water. All supposed to be following one instructor. And then the rest of us were kind of taking up the back.

Jay (57:03.388)And, um, and you just saw this panic, uh, on the face of like not feeling in control. And what I mean by that is that I can't get to where I want to get or stop when I want to stop or, you know, I'm not in control. And these weren't new divers. These are, you know, all over the spectrum divers in terms of their experience. And so it really highlighted this idea that, that over and over and over again, I've, I've come to, which is that your level of comfortability.

Like if I suck at golf, I always say this, if I sucked at golf, which I do, okay. Took a class in college. They taught us everything except for how to drive because we didn't have the right space for it. If you don't know how to drive, then the rest of it doesn't matter. And the minute I got on a golf course, I almost took out like 10 other golfers, right. It was, and I'd stink at it. So if you stink at something, if not even that you stink at it, that you don't feel comfortable. I don't feel comfortable stepping up to a tee and trying to hit a golf ball

yards, right? If you don't feel comfortable under the water, you're not going to continue. And what really came to light for me with that, again, was as everyone came up from that dive, everyone's going, you know, the first person says, oh, that's a great dive. And everyone says, oh, that was a great dive, a great dive, high five, blah, blah, blah. Under the water, the truth telling tells a completely different story. Like that was not a fun dive. You were like scared out of your mind and totally felt uncomfortable.

Jack Der (58:23.866)Heh.

Jay (58:32.648)And I think from a training perspective, you know, we talk a lot about retention in the industry, right. And, and this word, I think that that there's a piece that training plays as well in the sense that when you're comfortable and you feel like you're, you're good in whatever definition that is at the sport, then you'll continue doing it. But if you get out of your open water and then it's, hey, see ya and you barely can get your gear on.

Jay (59:02.568)So, you know, the idea that we, that we need to add more divers and to the total number. And so therefore we need to drive open water prices down and make it super easy for people to join contributes to the back end of that, that we lop off too much that we don't feel that we don't know how producing competent and comfortable divers that then they don't stay in the sport and they, and they're exit out and then it affects the manufacturers like you're saying, and you know, the frequency of diving and things.

Jack Der (59:24.155)Mm-hmm.

Jay (59:32.628)It's a whole probably seven episode series we could do on this. But but I just wanted to add to your thoughts there.

Jack Der (59:37.710)No, but I totally agree with that being comfortable. Because when people are comfortable, then they'll partake in it more often. I mean, I think that's just basic human nature. I mean, the more, like the other person I was talking about, the dive leading dives, and I'd be the guy that go dive with the newer diver. And a lot of times, they'd say, that was the best dive ever. Because they didn't have to worry.

Jay (01:00:07.131)Mm-hmm.

Jack Der (01:00:07.830)that I was there making sure that they were safe, right? And coming down to that communication and giving them that free space to go, yeah, that's not right, or I need to do this, we need to do this different, you know? So yeah, the more people are having fun and comfortable, they'll keep doing it. I mean, it's, I think that's just a basic thing. But again, I got to get past the millennials that are just checking off the box.

Jay (01:00:22.289)Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jay (01:00:38.288)Right, right. Yeah, yeah, that's true. There are there are folks that do that. And I think yeah, it's a good point. But it's a it's a it's a it's a simple truth. That's really affects the entire stack of the industry in some ways, for sure.

Jack Der (01:00:38.435)Great.

Jack Der (01:00:54.690)Well, I mean, you take that a step further with the dry suits. I mean, I tell people right off the bat, if it's their first dry suit, I go, it's going to take you 10, 12 dives before you even start feeling comfortable, because it's not going to be like your wetsuit. It can be. You can be just as comfortable in it. But just understand it will take some practice, and you have to change some of your mindset with how you dive.

Jack Der (01:01:24.970)And don't freak out when you go through this class and they tumble you around and do all this stuff. In reality, you're gonna be calm. Just pay attention to certain things and you'll be good and you'll enjoy it. And yes, you may do like I did and put the dry seat on and go, oh crap, the suspenders are between my legs again. Right? But you get over that, you get past all that awkwardness and stuff

Jay (01:01:49.628)Or forget to open your P-valve. I'm guilty. Ha ha ha.

Jack Der (01:01:54.650)then you you go out the dry seat was the best thing ever right they stay warm you know it's the same way if they're comfortable doing their regular dives the more often they will dive right

Jay (01:02:00.506)Yeah.

Jay (01:02:05.848)Yeah. Yeah. Same thing. Yeah. I know. For me, like, I just can't. It's funny because the joke is always, you know, we're going to go savage dive today, which is, you know, what suit dive like who's savage diving, like, I'll use savages, you know, in your wetsuits is an internal joke. We don't we don't look at other people and say that to them. But because there's the sweet spot, once you get comfortable in your dry suit, I mean, there's, there's just this beautiful sweet spot when you can

Jack Der (01:02:23.950)I'm gonna go to bed.

Jay (01:02:35.828)where your dry suit just like carries you along the water. Like it's just this beautiful, beautiful thing, but it takes work. Right. I remember, you know, the first time, um, that I was in a dry suit and, uh, I asked the question of my instructor at the time, like, you know, okay, this is all well and good doing this whole like starfish and tumble and things, but how do I do that in an overhead environment? Like, well, how do I event gas then? And, and it was kind of like.

Jay (01:03:05.928)I don't know. Like you tumble. Like what you can't tumble in that environment. Like what do you mean? So I remember when I, when I asked, you know, got past all of that and asked my next instructor, he's, oh, simple. Put yourself out a 45 degree angle, you know, tilt yourself up a little bit, break, trim a little bit and, and let time for the gas to actually vent. Right. I remember it was like, I'm, I w you're so used to that immediate reaction to things. You don't realize you need to let, you know,

Jack Der (01:03:07.450)I'm sorry.

Jack Der (01:03:26.047)Right.

Jack Der (01:03:35.614)Yep.

Jay (01:03:36.408)and then it will go right so there's a learning curve and that's uncomfortable when I'm like yeah come on gas come on gas and get mad about it that's okay right now I'm like okay let's go diving like no big deal it's this beautiful I can't imagine not having my dry suit because my enjoyment level will be so much lower because it's not my wetsuit is not gonna float me along in the water and carry me in this beautiful position right so anyway

Jack Der (01:03:42.233)Yep.

Jack Der (01:03:59.490)Right. Yeah. Physics comes into play. And I always remind people with dry suits physics, if you are neutrally buoyant at a position and you don't change anything inside your dry suit, okay, you don't add air, you don't let air out. It doesn't matter what position you're in. You're not going to go shooting to the surface by all of a sudden having your feet upright because you didn't change anything inside your dry suit. So your buoyancy is just like this.

Jack Der (01:04:29.430)So there's actually photos of me all the time. I'm going some weird angle to get a photo and I'm upside down. People are like, aren't you worried about the air going up at your feet and you're gonna shoot to the surface? I'm like, well, first of all, I didn't add any air when I got into that position. And so I'm not gonna go shoot to the surface. And then when it's time, I just rotate myself back into the right position because I didn't change any of the variables, so to speak. And people kind of forget physics.

Jay (01:04:56.689)Right.

Jay (01:04:59.210)Yep.

Jack Der (01:04:59.450)And sometimes I know math is hard, but that's a tech diving rom.

Jay (01:05:07.708)That's right. We could have been doing a podcast about math. So I'm glad we did one about scuba.

Jay (01:05:15.748)Well, good. I mean, I think this is good. And hopefully out there, it's giving you a little behind the scenes look at being a diver working in the dive industry, which I am starting my journey learning more and more about. And Jack, I think has a wealth of experience there and knowledge to share. So

Jack Der (01:05:34.030)Yeah, two months from now. Hey, Jay, what are you working in? Oh yeah. I I'm working in the computer industry.

Jay (01:05:41.588)Exactly. Or I'm eating pizza and we're foreclosing on the new house. Yeah, we'll see how it goes. Yeah. But no, I mean, I'm excited to learn more and to be in that mode of, you know, I'll always be a diver first. I'm so passionate about this. And that's what initially attracted me to you. I mean, I think our first phone call was scheduled for like half an hour and it was like, oh, three

Jack Der (01:05:47.172)I'm out.

Jay (01:06:12.031)to cut it off here, you know, bUt it's...

Jack Der (01:06:14.370)

I know. And then at work, they have a thing. It knows how long you're on each phone call. I'm like, what? You're tracking this?

Jay (01:06:20.668)hahahahahahahahahahahahah

Jay (01:06:25.328)Oh, I want to see that printout. I bet you, I bet you you, you, they've got to present an award for that at the end of the year. Most, uh, most in-depth phone calls to Mr. Jack DER

Jack Der (01:06:31.450)I'm gonna go to bed.

Jack Der (01:06:36.231)I don't see my thing is it's not frequency. It's the quality of the length of the call.

Jay (01:06:43.548)That's that sounds like a good job interview answer.

Jay (01:06:49.568)Well, good. We would love to hear your thoughts. Are you a full-time dive pro? In what capacity? Are you in the industry? How's it going? How did, how did you pay the bills? Right. We, we want to know your tips or are you trying to break in? What do you, what do you want to do? I would love to hear from you. And I'm, I know Jack would, and as Jack said, he will be responsive. So reach out to him and I will as well. Any parting thoughts before we wrap this one up, Jack?

Jack Der (01:07:18.310)Um, nope, but just, uh, in the end, always have fun. I mean, you gotta have fun, right? No matter what your job is at some point, you got to step back and go, am I enjoying life? Right? In this case, am I enjoying my diving? Right? Got to get out there and dive. And thank you for having me on again. This is, it's, it's actually kind of fun for an introvert.

Jay (01:07:36.588)That's right. That's right.

Jay (01:07:40.293)Yeah.

Jay (01:07:44.528)That's good to hear. It's good to hear. We got one more to do. So I'm glad. I'm glad. And maybe more to come. Who knows? So Jack, thank you for being on the show. And hey, if you enjoyed this episode and you want to be part of this growing community, make sure that you subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen to your podcast so you get notified when new episodes drop. Thank you for joining us today. And we look forward to having you back on the next episode of the Dive Table.